Borax for Knee Osteoarthritis

Thank you Art. The study does sound hopeful. I thought of Methylene Blue when I read the abstract. I am wondering if this would be helpful for mitochondrial disfunction. Thoughts? Question: Do I apply the Melatonin lotion directly onto my knees? I have read elsewhere on this site that you put it on your stomach. Also. do you continue to take high-dose melatonin at night. I have been taking it at night for years but only 5-10 mg.

Hi Anna Girl,

MB, melatonin, NAC and alpha lipoic acid are all good for mitochondrial dysfunction and they all cross the blood brain barrier.

Yes, I applied the lotion directly to the entire knee area, front back and sides, when I was testing it.

Stomach application was only a test for a person who had shown extreme sensitivity to multiple medications and for a person who had stomach upset from an unknown cause. This is not the norm. Normally I apply it where the pain is, but for nerve issues I have applied it to the whole spine or the lower spine at a minimum because melatonin has shown some nerve healing qualities as discussed here :

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35770586/

Here is a relevant quote from the link :

' Sciatic nerve damage caused a significant decrease in nerve conduction velocity. Both electroacupuncture treatment and melatonin treatment significantly increased the nerve conduction velocity. Both sciatic functional recovery and histological regeneration were faster in these treatment groups compared to the saline. However, no significant difference was observed between the two treatment groups.'

Art

Thank you for this information Art. I just made my melatonin lotion and put it on both knees. The directions said sparingly. I assume it's a few dabs of lotion. How long before I can expect pain relief if it works for me? Also, are you still recommending taking high-dose melatonin along with the lotion application? I just got 60 mg melatonin. Is this a good starting dose?

Hi Anna Girl,

Melatonin lotion (ML) usually starts to take effect within 5 minutes of application and the benefit can slightly increase with each application for the first week or two and then it plateaus. If you have advanced osteoarthritis (OA) in your knees, the ML can have reparative effects with long term use and it should be complimentary to Ted's borax remedy for arthritis. Melatonin has shown the potential to ameliorate OA through multiple methods of action as discussed here :

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1568163722000770

Here is a relevant quote from the link :

' With regards to OA, melatonin reportedly promotes synthesis of cartilage matrix, inhibition of chondrocyte apoptosis, attenuation of inflammatory response, and suppression of matrix degradation by regulating the TGF-β, MAPK, or NF-κB signaling pathways. Notably, melatonin has been associated with amelioration of oxidative damage by restoring the OA-impaired intracellular antioxidant defense system in articular cartilage. Findings from preliminary application of melatonin or melatonin-loaded biomaterials in animal models have affirmed its potential anti-arthritic effects. Herein, we summarize the anti-arthritic effects of melatonin on OA cartilage and demonstrate that melatonin has potential therapeutic efficacy in treating OA. '

I take both melatonin lotion and higher dose oral melatonin everyday. The oral dose I take now is 48 mg/night which was reduced from over a 100 mg/day.

There are more potent topical pain relievers than melatonin, but they do not offer the reparative effects that melatonin offers for OA.

Art

Hi Art! I have been drinking the borax solution for 5 days...2 days off. I'm beginning my 5-day rotation today. Too early to tell. However, the melatonin lotion gives almost a 50% relief in pain and stiffness immediately. I'm using it 2x a day..once in the morning and at bedtime. However, this does not last all day. I'm assuming that because I have deteriorated knee cartilage and that this will all take some time. There are 3 suggestions for OA help that I have found on this site that I find interesting. 1) drinking borax water 2) borax solution rubbed on the affected area followed by DMSO. 3) Melatonin lotion. My question is if I should be doing all 3. If so, how do I incorporate #2 and #3? Again, thanks for your help.

Hi Anna Girl,

I am a fan of trying one item at a time because if you start everything at once and have a negative reaction, you will have to stop everything and start over with one item anyway, to try and determine which one caused the negative reaction.

The melatonin lotion was a good place to start. OA severity could be why you are only able to get 50% relief at this time. Did you make a weaker ML? If the ML doesn't make you tired you can go three times per day such as morning, afternoon and bedtime. It has healing qualities in OA and should work well in conjunction with borax. From feedback from friends who have tested ML, they have reported that the apparent benefit seemed to increase for the first one to two weeks. So watch for that angle.

If you want to test DMSO, then test DMSO, but don't do it if you are using melatonin lotion, it should be one or the other. DMSO can carry other molecules into your system and lotions have too many chemicals that you probably don't want to go systemic. For me, DMSO never offered any pain relief over multiple testing periods, but others swear by it. I have only used DMSO when I wanted to try and improve the transdermal penetration of another single molecule, but I have only done that for my personal testing and have not recommended it on EC. One possibility is that you try ML on one knee and DMSO on the other knee. I don't know if people experience any healing from DMSO when used for OA. I have always understood that you would have to use it for the rest of your life in order to maintain the pain relief, but I could be mistaken on that point.

With Borax, my opinion is that people usually start to see benefit within the first month, but again, if the OA is severe, maybe it takes more time.

As always, you need your doctor's approval and supervision when using these types of remedies. I am not a doctor.

Art

Art...you have been wonderful! I really appreciate your advice. I'm beginning to get the hang of it as far as focusing on the borax drink and melatonin lotion. Staying with these two things is good counsel.

You asked whether I made a weaker lotion. I used the recipe that you gave for melatonin lotion:

• • Take your four-ounce jar and add one level full one-quarter measuring teaspoon of melatonin powder into the jar.
  • Add one ounce of gin to the melatonin in the jar. Replace the lid and shake well until the gin looks clear again.
  • Add 2 ounces of Cetaphil lotion to the jar. Replace the lid and shake until well-mixed.

I used vodka instead of the gin because I had organic vodka on hand.

I used the link provided for the melatonin powder which is Bulk Supplements 3 mg. Are you suggesting that I increase the powder in my mixture?

Today I am going to use the lotion 3x to see how that works and continue to drink the borax mixture with 1/8 t of Borax.

Thank you again for your help!

Hi Anna Girl,

No problem with 3x a day if it does not make you feel tired. Some people are sensitive to melatonin and it can make them feel tired during the day. I have a high tolerance for melatonin and don't get tired.

A quarter level full teaspoon is correct. Some friends have reported that it takes more vodka than gin to fully dissolve the melatonin powder.

Please keep us posted on your progress.

Art

Hi Art! Thanks for your response. Hopefully this will be my last question to make sure I am following the best protocol for my knee OA. Right now I am drinking the Borax water (5 days on and 2 days off) and using the Melatonin Lotion 3x a day. In browsing this site, I saw people also using baking soda along with the Borax. Do you recommend this? If so, how much should I add to the daily mixture?

Hi Anna Girl,

I never used baking soda with my borax. So I don't know why it was used in the post that you read. It seems like they are both salts and that may be more salt than needed when combined with salt intake from foods.

Is the melatonin 3x per day working out better for you than 2x per day? Do you experience any tiredness relating to the third dose? Do you notice that the current effect is better than the initial application effect which you reported as 50% relief?

Art

Hi Art...thanks for your response. I'll stick to the 1/8 t Borax water and melatonin lotion 3x daily. So far, I have not noticed any tiredness with moving from 2x to 3x application of the lotion. However, on the 2nd day (May 22) of week 2 of Borax water, my knees/legs seemed to get worse with swelling, pain and stiffness. This continued on day 3 and 4. Last night my one leg was aching during the night. So, bottomline, it seems like I have backtracked. I'm wondering if I'm experiencing the removal of toxins... I plan to hang in there. You have pointed out numerous times to me and others that we need to give it at least 4 months. I'm wondering, since my diagnosis is that I have severe OA (this all happened suddenly) that I should consider upping my dosage to 1/4 t. Thanks!

Hi Anna Girl,

What I have said is that most people notice improvement within the first month, but maximal benefit may occur in the 3 to 4 month area.

Borax has antimicrobial properties so it does have the potential to kill bacteria and fight fungus and you may be experiencing some form of die off. The following article from Arthritis Foundation says that bacterial DNA can be found in arthritic joints as discussed here :

https://www.arthritis.org/diseases/more-about/microbiomes-role-in-osteoarthritis

Here is a relevant quote from the article :

' Bacterial DNA is found in different parts of the joint, including the cartilage, joint lining (synovium) and synovial fluid. These microbial signatures change as OA develops.'

' The microbial DNA makeup of healthy human knee and hip cartilage differs significantly from OA cartilage. In a first-of-its-kind study, Dr. Matlock showed that healthy cartilage contained mainly Firmicutes, common and beneficial bacteria normally found in the gut. OA cartilage was populated by Actinobacteria and Proteobacteria, which also are common in the gut but in large numbers are associated with disease. The microbial populations in OA cartilage were less diverse than in healthy cartilage and hip OA cartilage was less diverse than OA knee cartilage. Dr. Matlock noted they are finding “more and more differences between knee and hip OA.'

If the borax is killing bacteria in the joints, this could possibly account for what you are feeling. If that is what is happening, adding more borax may not be the best idea as it may result in a bacterial die off that is too fast.

It's good that the melatonin lotion isn't making you tired. Does the three times a day melatonin lotion application offer more relief than two times per day?

Art