Natural Remedies

Curing Sarcoptic Mange, Demodectic Pododermatitis - Questions for Theresa

Posted by John (Sheffield Uk) on 08/18/2016

Hi there I am posting this for some advice please from Theresa Mpls ., Mn as you always give great advice on dogs with mange.

I am certain our two dogs, staffordshire bull terriers both have sarcoptic mange and demodectic pododermatitis, we rescued our 6 year old male from the councill pound at the end of january for my sons birthday, our 12 year old girl we have had from a pup has never had mange until we adopted our rescue, when we went to meet him with our old girl he was bald on his belly and his private areas, I did not think anything of this at the time as I have had a lot of friends growing up who had staffys where quite a few were bald like this on there under belly so thought this was normal as I had no first hand experience of having a dog with mange before, he also had what looked like little scar shaped bold areas of fur near his ears, on side of face and on top of back and front legs, looked like they had been done with a sharp point, claws or teeth, when I asked the rescue what they were, were they scars, they told us thats what it looked like and could have been from fighting or possabily ill treated as he was shaking a lot when he came in, after our rescue started to settle in he started scratching his belly quite a bit and was chewing and biting his paw pads, when this started to get worse I researched his symptoms on line, he was underweight a bit and was off his food and also had a bit of a pot belly, I knew this could be a sign of worms so that was what I googled first when his symptoms came up and the itching and scratching of his belly and and the other things matched up saying could be a sign of an infestation of worms, this was the line I went down first, I found two really good natural products on germanshepardrescue.co.uk, as wanted to be kind and do the best for dogs using natural treatments, these were diatomaceous earth and verm X, after the lady who founded the german sheppard rescue really sang its praises and used it on her own dogs and I also checked out customer reviews on the products site where there was plenty of positive reviews, these products were put in there food, a teaspoon daily for each dog for the diatomaceous earth powder and three days concectivley once a month of the other verm x product, this sorted out his pot belly so I am certain he had worms and these products sorted this out but after a short lived improvement of the scratching it then got a lot worse with our rescue with him scratching really intensley his under belly, under his armpits and biting and chewing at his legs and paw pads, making his skin really raw, and making it bleed in some instances and started loosing fur, I got back on the internet googling his symptoms and up came mange, all the reaserch and sites I went on and the symptoms our rescue was displaying matched up with sarcoptic mange and demodectic pododermatitis, these symptoms were constant intense severe itching, irratation and scratching on all underside belly area inside arm pit - leg pit areas, neck, chest areas, ears and face, hair loss, bald patches, skin rashes, biting and chewing at legs back and front and paw pads, also we had a period of where me and my children were constantly itching and scratching and felt like things crawling on us and nipping at us, this was worse at night especially, we had spent quite a few weeks letting him go upstairs fussing him, him jumping up to us and laying on floor with him, cuddling him, none of this was present on us or our other dog till we fetched him home, so I know from what I have read this was passed on to us from him, I took our dogs to the vet and said I was certain they had sarcoptic mange and demodectic pododermatitis, told them all symptoms and she saw his skin and fur condition and what had been happening with me and kids, skin scrapings were done and came back negitive, for both dogs, I didnt pay any attention to that as I had read that only 20 % of infected dogs showed up on testing, the vet offered two types of meds but turned them down and I said was trying the natural route first, I have researched and found out that antibiotics and steroids weaken the immune system as do strong chemicals, after I found out this information about different types of mange and worked out what it was I got back in touch with the company I got diatomaceous earth powder from got advice from them and read all of customer reviews, I put the powder all over our dogs and treated there new dog beds and all the carpets upstairs and rugs downstairs, our other dog was not showing any signs at this point but not much further on she developed it to as they had been laying together for weeks when we had not known it was mange, I was doing the dogs 3 times a week and there beds and carpets upstairs and rugs downstairs every other day, carried on researching and found out about apple cider vinegar and was bathing him with this, the diatomaceous earth when put on the dogs has provided instant relief every time but is very drying to skin, effect usally lasts 24 hrs, the apple cider made the skin flair up a bit at first but really helped his skin to heal after around 3 to 4 applications on his underside and belly, his fur began to grow back on his belly from using these two treatments, I was diluting the organic apple cider vinegar and putting a couple of tablespoons in a cupful of water and putting on with cotton wool all over, then I found out about olive oil and after reading it was very good for soothing and healing skin with added bonus of killing mites incourpreated this treatment too, covering dogs in extra virgin olive oil from head to foot putting on with cotton wool in cup, dogs have found this really soothing and they have no scratching or itching just odd time when this has been applied leave this on for 24 hrs then rinse off, the olive oil always helps the skin heal, calms and soothes the skin and dogs and they look a lot better when been on, we were having success with these three like I said his fur was growing back really well on his belly, but, relief was short lived as probably around 24hrs again the itching and scratching would start again after each treatment, he then started loosing fur on his sides and our other dog was really scratching a lot and biting and knibbling herself too and starting to loose fur on her underside, I kept researching on the internet and thats when I found the earth clinic site, I came across teds mange cure and have read as many of the other posts on mange too when I have been able too, we gave them both 3 treatments in first week of teds mange cure then 2 times a week as well as other treatments listed before, also came across the mayonasise with cider vinegar treatment and switched the normal cider vinegar to this one after reading all the positive posts and the original lady who posted it saying it cured her rescue dogs mange every time, did teds mange cure every week not missing a treatment and the others on other days hardly missing any, I am a fulltime single dad of two children, who does not get a break, they do not see there mum at all through her own choice, so managing this has been a constant struggle and battle for us all, around six weeks of teds treatment combined with other treatments our rescue was really looking well all his fur had practically grown back and his skin had gone from a really dark unhealthy colour to looking really well and white, his skin on his belly had gone from red raw to the same and all his fur grew back and red spotted rashes he had on belly were all gone, our older dog however had lost quite a bit on her sides, back, neck and chest, I have kept the dogs in seperate parts now, since this and bagged there dog beds up a few weeks earlier as think they were getting reinfected with these even though they were getting treated with the diatomaceous earth powder as there like a big cusion bed with cover on, and possabily reinfecting each other when lying and sleeping together, at around 9 weeks our rescue lost fur worse than 1 st time aound all over, we have now completed 12 weeks of teds mange cure, our old girl has grown all her fur back except for a few small areas at the top of her front legs and where her armpit is, backside and on her neck, but she is still scratching no where near as bad but is still there., our male rescue has turned the corner again and fur starting to grow back on all areas but quite a bit to come back, a good few weeks if goes like our old girl, we almost seem to be there like the first time with our rescue, then something stopping total cure, I dont know if there getting reinfected from enviroment, each other, they are now kept downstairs all the times and have been for around last 6 weeks, I have took the rugs up and bagged up the dog beds we have real wooden floor boards uncovered downstairs in the living room and cushioned lino floor in the kitchen, can these sarcoptic mange mites live and survive on hard surfaces like this, from reading your other posts do you think it could be there immune systems need boosting, I read on your posts about vitamin c, fish oil, goldseal, colostrum, and echinachia I think, could you please recomend some good value sellers fo these, read on another of your posts that because of damage to skin many dogs have bacterial or yeast infections that need to be treated to, do you think this could be contributing, through the week dogs are having mayonaise treatments twice a week minimum, most times 3 a week and olive oil on a seperate day, also have shower with oatmeal, shea butter and aloe vera extracts shampoo all natural ingriedients so are having a lot of things which are healing and soothing for skin, both dogs have been on bosch organic dog food since we weaned our rescue of his kennel food, I know that you have said that any food with food dyes, grains or corn in can cause skin problems, dont think its this as our rescues grew back almost perfect before going again and now our old girls is at the same stage of almost fully grown back whilst still on this food, ive checked the ingriedients and it does have organic barley which I have just read is a grain, read loads of stuff on barley been a real great health food even read its cured cancer patients in the cancer survivors bible book when I was researching and doing my best to help my mum with her ovarian cancer, do you think it could be this, even though there furs growing back whilst there on it, this is a copy of whats in, Bosch Organic Adult with apple is a naturally tasty dog food for fully grown dogs from 1 year, made with regional produce of organic quality. Contains no wheat, a grain that often causes allergies.

The fibre from apples in Bosch organic Adult dog food help regulate the digestive system. Additionally, apples also contain valuable vitamins, minerals and carbohydrates.

The agricultural produce in Bosch Organic Adult dog food originates from 100% certified organic sources, contractually monitored and checked by the Association for Processing of Organic Agricultural Produce in Karlsruhe, Germany.

Bosch uses tasty organic fresh meat from select Organic Farms (ECOLAND) from the Hohenlohe-Franken region in Germany.

Bosch Organic Adult Dog Food contains only agricultural produce that is certified 100% organic.

  • Organic fresh meat:
    • from unique breeds of the Höfen region in Hohenloher Land, Germany
    • regional meat means short transportation from slaughter to processing
    • fresh and meaty
  • Organic-Poultry meat meal:
    • delicately produced
    • tasty and nutritious from German organic slaughter houses
  • Organic fish meal:
    • rich in Omega-3-fatty acids
    • high organic value
  • Organic poultry fat:
    • rich in essential fatty acids
    • tasty basis for necessary energy
    • from German organic slaughtering
  • Organic barley:
    • active digestive dietary fibres
    • easy-to-digest carbohydrate
  • Organic rice:
    • allergen-low corn
    • easy-to-digest carbohydrate
  • Organic peas:
    • valuable vegetable
    • high content of vitamins and antioxidant carotenoids
  • Organic carrots:
    • valuable dietary fibres
    • provide pro-vitamin A
  • Organic tomatoes
    • contain antioxidant plant substances (Lycopene)
    • stimulate the immune system
  • Organic apples:
    • stimulating digestive dietary fibres (pectins)
    • easily soluble carbohydrates
  • Organic pears:
    • stimulate the taste
    • stabilize digestive system

Bosch Organic pet food completely relies on regional producers of 100% organic food that is never genetically modified. Bosch values the practice of keeping animals in their natural environment as well as the preservation of breeding species. This ensures compliance with animal protection, meat production, and environmental laws.

Bosch practices this philosophy and the result is healthy, natural, and tasty dog food. A healthy dog means a happy dog and a happy owner!

Bosch Organic dog food: "in balance with nature - for the best organic food"

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Go to analytical constituentsIngredients:
Rice*, barley*, poultry meat meal*, meat*, poultry fat*, fish meal*, digest, apples* (min. dried 1%), peas* (dried), potassium chloride, sodium chloride, pears* (Dried), carrots* (dried), tomato purée* (dehydrated).
* = 100% certified organic products

Meat and protein from animal sources: min. 24.5% (dryed), proportion of protein that's from animals: min. 69.5%.

Additives:
Nutritional dietary additives:
Vitamin A (12,000 IU/kg), vitamin D3 (1,200 IU/kg), vitamin E [alpha-tocopherol acetate] (70 mg/kg), vitamin B1 (10 mg/kg), vitamin B2 (10 mg/kg), vitamin B6 (6 mg/kg), vitamin B12 (30 mcg/kg), biotin (250 mcg/kg), pantothenic acid (20 mg/kg), niacine (40 mg/kg), folic acid (2 mg/kg), vitamin K (1 mg/kg), vitamin C (70 mg/kg), choline chloride (2,250 mg/kg), iron (130 mg/kg), zinc [zinc oxide] (70 mg/kg), copper [copper-(II)-sulphate, pentahydrate] (10 mg/kg), cobalt (0.1 mg/kg), manganese (15 mg/kg), iodine [calcium iodate, water-free] (2 mg/kg), selenium [sodium selenite] (0.2 mg/kg).
Technological additives:
anti-oxidants.


Analytical constituents

protein

22.0 %

fat

11.5 %

fibre

2.5 %

ash

6.0 %

calcium

1.0 %

phosphorus

0.8 %

magnesium

0.1 %

potassium

0.55 %

sodium

0.35 %

calories that can be burned

15.6 MJ/kg

also for washing things like bedding and dog beds, clothes ect if any mites are on these is it better to wash with borax and hydrogen peroxide, and have you the ratios for this please as have not been able to find them, want to make sure I am covering all aspects in killing the mites and getting rid, also would like to do safe baths for me and children incase any still on us, would that be borax and hydrogen peroxide again and do you have ratios please, we have also been giving dogs 100% raw organic cold pressed cocunut oil daily to eat, about a tea spoon and a half each and a tablespoon each of apple cider vinegar in there evening food, also upped diatermacious earth powder to a tablespoon for each dog in there morning food after reading one of earth clinic posts about a lady who cured her dog after 8 months using the diatermatious earth powder in this way, sorry about length of this post we have been trying our best now to cure them since febuary and know where nearly there just want to get dogs cured as impacting on other things trying to get done in home life and its a real struggle at best of times without this and at a later date would also like to adopt another rescue when there 100% cured, also borax hydrogen peroxide treatment we have done now for 12 weeks, they have had a break of about a week can we contiue back on with this as you said on some of your posts to do for 12 weeks, there skin is looking healthy from mayonaise, olive oil tratments and oatmeal, aloe vera shea butter shampoo, really hope you can help us to completley cure them now, thankyou for your time john

Replied by Theresa
Mpls., Mn
08/19/2016

Hello John,

When I die I would like to come back as one of your Staffords!! It sounds like you do an amazing job with both your doggies and your kiddoes - kudos!!

A few thoughts for you:

When you/your kids contracted the sarcoptic mange mites did you get a rash? People can contract sarcoptic mange from their dogs, but it is species specific so cannot reproduce on humans [human specific sarcoptic mange mite = scabies]. Both types will give humans a nasty, itchy rash - and the rash will be obvious. If you and your kids are not covered in red itchy bumps, it may not be sarcoptic mange mites that is the source of the itchies. Sarcoptic mange mites can live for a short time off the host; you might try treating the bedrooms in diatomaceous earth and all sleeping in ONE room for 3 days while the bedding for the empty rooms is laundered [regular soap, nothing special] and thoroughly dried. Leaving the rooms vacant will allow the DE to work on any pests, and if you are dealing with sarcoptic then any mites no matter how well hidden will have no host so they will die. After the quarantine time is up put down the fresh bedding and you should be good to go - just keep the dogs out to avoid contaminating the rooms all over again.

Another thing to consider are fleas - so obvious but often over looked as they just creep up on you. I favor a simple lamp flea trap. Place a small desk lamp on the floor and place a white plate underneath the bulb. Add dish soap and water to the plate and turn on the light and leave over night, and then check in the morning to see what you have caught. I find this a super FAST way to catch fleas as it draws them out of their hiding spots, and it also catches anything else that flies in the room as well. I have these lamp traps deployed in each room and turn them on when the nights get cool - right about now in my area - and when the fleas start hopping on pets to get a ride inside for a warm place to spend the winter. So just for kicks and giggles, try a lamp flea trap in an area where the dogs sleep and see what you catch.

I tried to find your dog exact food to verify the ingredient panel and found this [does not say organic but is about your brand]:

http://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/0920/bosch-adult

The organic part is the good part, but the rest makes me go 'Hmmmm!", ie rice and barley [carbs] are the first ingredients listed by weight, ie you have more rice and barley in that brand of kibble than you have chicken meal. [Note: you also have a generic *meat* listed - I know it says organic, but in the USA un-named meat = garbage meat, downed cows not fit for human consumption, and some say even dog and cat carcasses rendered from the dog catcher!] Carbs are common in dog food, but in dogs that have a systemic yeast over growth carbs help feed the yeast. And yeast over growth in the digestive tract commonly result in skin issues and food sensitivities. And you treat your dogs with the mange remedy [which on one level addresses yeast on the surface of the skin] and when you stop the itching quickly returns: when I add it up it sounds more like systemic yeast than anything else. So, I know you are feeding a spendy brand but consider finding a low carb/high protien kibble along with water additives to address yeast.

Yeast is such a common thing - and many things can trigger a yeast overgrowth; stress, vaccination, eating the wrong treat just once! One thing that I do from time to time is treat myself and my dogs to baking soda water. I start with a crisis dose for one week, and cut the dose down week by week until I am at a maintenance dose and then I stop. I might then do Ted's Borax protocol for dogs. The borax is a very strong anti-fungal/anti-yeast, and the baking soda helps alkalize the body and restore a healthy PH. I do drink the borax water along with the dogs as I want to taste and feel what they may be experiencing and it makes the water taste a tad off but it is by no means unpalatable.

This is advice from Ted and is a general guideline:

"Sometimes we are dealing with internal/systemic yeast or an internal fungal infection - and sometimes despite the best nutrition out there we will experience an individual that for some reason is deficient in a mineral such as boron. If the dog is low in magnesium quite often allergies will arise. If you are dealing with yeast try adding 1/16 teaspoon of epsom salt in 1 liter of drinking water for 2-3 days - max; this is not intended for long term use, just to nip a break out in the bud. When you stop the epsom salt in the water you can then start adding 1 teaspoon baking soda to 1 liter of water; do this for 5-7 days. This is a 'break out' or crisis dose. After a week you can cut it back to a maintenance dose of 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda to the water. If you suspect a fungal component you can add 1/16 teaspoon borax along with the baking soda in 1 liter of water. In acute and extreme cases 1/4 teaspoon of borax in 1 liter of water is indicated. Many humans take 1/8 - 1/4 teaspoon borax in 1 liter of water daily as a detox and antifungal/antiyeast, so long term use is not an issue, however all these remedies are something you should 'play by ear' and should be adjusted as you see fit. The water additives address mineral deficiency issues and should be addressed first."

So clean the house, and make sure you have some rooms sit empty as mentioned above just in case you are dealing with sarcoptic. Set out lamp flea traps where the dogs sleep and where the people sleep, because it is the right season for it and you just never know what you will catch. Switch kibble to a high protien brand and reduce carbs [stop feeding the yeast]. Begin water treatment to address the systemic yeast - and if the dogs refuse the treated water then work the plan in reverse and start with a small amount of baking soda or borax and increase every 3 days until the max dose. My dogs used to give me a funny look when I treated the water and now it is routine, they sniff their noses in the air but drink it down - so they will adapt and get used to it. And then give it a week or two to work and report back please!