Stopping Blood Thinners for Alternatives
In 2000 my legs hurt so bad I did 10 sessions of IV chelation therapy and the pain disappeared for 22 years. I also took natto and krill oil.
Fast forward to 2022. I was attempting IV chelation again but kept getting nauseous and was unable to get in but one treatment a week and sometimes skipped for weeks. My MD Alternate doctor said she was worried about my inability to take at least two treatments per week for at least 20 treatments. (I recently determined it was the B complex added to the EDTA that was making me sick. I stopped taking the supplement and no nausea.)
Saw vascular surgeon and began a great decline in my health. 30 stents and a leg bypass surgery later PLUS a daily poison of 5 mg of Eliquis twice a day, 75 mg of Plavix at night and 10 mg of lisinopril a day. I had a quarter sized ulcer on my big toe joint and inflamed foot. I knew that the bypass might save my foot from amputation and it did.
My first six week check up ultrasound showed complete normal blood flow in my leg and I was elated. My second six week ultrasound showed narrowing of artery in three places and the surgeon wanted to blow out those areas with an arteriogram.
I said NO more surgeries!!!
I was getting weaker and weaker and was hospitalized, given three units of blood and one of iron. My hemoglobin was 5.3. They could not find from where I was bleeding.
Two months I am still weak and know I am still bleeding and know I am being poisoned by the drugs. I felt I was dying. I had to take back control.
First I stopped Lisinopril six weeks ago. My BP remains steady at 120/65. Four days ago I Stopped Eliquis. My stools are getting brown again and I feel better. Only Plavix remains.
Now my issue and why I am posting asking for your help, especially you Art. I am a researcher also and go to the .gov websites to read studies.
Two weeks ago I started Niacin 50 mg, adding 50 mg a week to gradually get to 500 mg. Am at 150 mg a day now.
I had quit Natto and other natural blood thinners due to bleeding. Now I want to get off Plavix and don't know how. Should I start Natto at 2000 fu and grape seed at 400 mg and stop Plavix?
AI of course tells me to consult my doctor which I refuse to do. They know nothing except what Big Pharma tells them.
Any suggestions would be much appreciated and considered, after further research.
CA
05/24/2026
"AI of course" is too general, there are huge differences between "them" and all reflect the biases of their 'education'. There's one which has provided a large portion of what seems reasonable and believable to me on many topics but has proven completely inaccurate and misleading on other topics with which I have high level personal expertise. Caveat emptor and good luck. There's a rapidly increasing level of surreptitious AI infiltration in all elements of yootoob videos has become nearly unavoidable. Of course that's also the case with online forums. As a new participant here at Earth Clinic it will be of great interest to try sniffing out how much of this is taking place 'here'.
An elderly agnostic friend joined a prayer circle and commented "It seemed to help". Where this association emerged from just now is unknown but sure a contrast to the forgoing ;-)
Wishing you well in this tiptoing into the Unknown.
California
05/24/2026
Hi Lora,
Based on the study I wrote about previously in the link below, 2000 FU is not likely to offer any measurable benefit to cholesterol lowering or anti-arteriosclerotic effects.
https://www.earthclinic.com/cures/high-dose-nattokinase-for-atherosclerosis.html
In the above study, one group involved in the study were given 3600 FU's and another group was given 10, 800 FU's of nattokinase. Here is a relevant quote from the study :
' The “lower dose” nattokinase group received 3, 600 FU (fibrinolytic units) per day. In the study, that dose was found to be ineffective for improving cholesterol/lipid levels or slowing the progression of atherosclerosis. Researchers reported that the 3, 600 FU/day group did not significantly lower lipids or suppress plaque progression, whereas the much higher 10, 800 FU/day dose did show significant benefits. '
So if you are planning on using nattokinase to reduce atherosclerosis and or cholesterol, 2000 FU's/day is not likely to be effective.
Regarding taking niacin at 500 mg/day, you didn't specify what type of niacin, so I have to assume that it is nicotinic acid. While that dose of nicotinic can offer health benefit, it is essentially a pharmacological dose and it also carriesmultiple health risks with it that you should be aware of, possibly to the liver as discussed here :
At 500 mg/day, nicotinic acid moves beyond a simple vitamin dose and into a pharmacologic range.
Potential concerns include:
- Liver stress or liver injury
- Risk is higher with:
- sustained/extended-release forms
- alcohol use
- pre-existing liver disease
- combining with other hepatotoxic substances
- Insulin resistance / higher blood sugar
- Can worsen glucose control in susceptible people.
- Elevated uric acid
- May trigger gout in predisposed individuals.
- Gastrointestinal irritation
- Gastritis or ulcer aggravation can occur.
- Possible arrhythmia or blood pressure effects
- Usually uncommon, but possible in sensitive individuals.
- Risk is higher with:
Immediate-release vs sustained-release
This matters a lot:
- Immediate-release nicotinic acid
- More flushing
- Generally considered less liver-toxic than sustained-release at equivalent doses.
- Sustained/extended-release niacin
- Less flushing
- Greater liver risk.
Monitoring
If someone uses 500 mg/day regularly, many clinicians would consider periodic monitoring of:
- liver enzymes (AST/ALT)
- fasting glucose or HbA1c
- uric acid
Interaction with the PHL
Relative to your PHL framework:
- niacin may support aspects of lipid metabolism and NAD-related pathways,
- but high-dose nicotinic acid can also increase oxidative/metabolic stress in some individuals if overdone.
- Since your PHL already includes NR or NMN for NAD+ support, adding substantial nicotinic acid may not always produce additive benefit and may increase side-effect burden.
Important distinction
“Nicotinic acid” is different from:
- Niacinamide (less flushing, different effects)
- NR (nicotinamide riboside)
- NMN
Those forms behave differently biologically and have different risk profiles.
For many people, 500 mg/day is tolerated, but it is not generally considered a trivial or purely nutritional dose.
You are describing several different health issues, chelation, atherosclerosis and blood thinning/clotting and I am not quite sure which one you want to address, but if it is the atherosclerosis, it will likely require a significantly higher dose of nattokinase than the 2000 FU's you were previously taking. Such a higher dose can potentially reduce fibrin which stabilizes clots. So from my point of view, I would consider nattokinase as more of a helper in dissolving blood clots than a blood thinner.
The higher dosing of niacin may offer some modest anti-clotting effects.
Others that can be useful for fighting atherosclerosis are:
1. Omega 3 with high EPA
2. Aged Garlic Extract
3. Vitamin K2M7
4. Magnesium Glycinate
5. Cocoa Flavanols
Art
ME
06/01/2026
Researchers reported that the 3,600 FU/day group did not significantly lower lipids or suppress plaque progression
1800 FU in a day is a joke. It was an experiment designed to fail.
2000 IU dose nattokinase is useless for any heart disease. At best, it may be just preventative. It should be taken with serrapeptase.
I use a liposomal brand with 2 capsules per serving that has
12,000 FU nattokinase
360,000 SPU serrapeptase
If heart disease is severe, it should be used 3 servings a day for at least 3 months.
I would use it for 3 months or more as an initial cleanse if you don't know the state of your arteries.
People refer to nattokinase as blood thinners. No. They are clot busters.
I don't use lumbrokinase because the label doesn't spell out FU strength so one is never is sure about brand quality. Dr best is only one I trust. So I stick with nattokinase.
In early 2000s, there were no shortage of research studies that said cholesterol is irrelevant for heart disease. My cholesterol has been around 350 most of my life. I'm 71. I completely ignore cholesterol.
There are studies that say people with low cholesterol die sooner.
Half the people who die of heart attacks and strokes have no symptoms nor truly abnormal readings. I'd focus on a calcium scan if available in your area if anything.
Better to focus on a nattokinase/serrapeptase cleanse and vitamin K2.
